tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post6125545839496080566..comments2023-07-31T05:15:05.805-05:00Comments on Geek with an attitude: Why KDE4 (might) suck!geekaholichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16681603430019235684noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-21747846904507991632008-09-08T15:54:00.000-05:002008-09-08T15:54:00.000-05:00I've said this elsewhere, the problem isn't KDE4. ...I've said this elsewhere, the problem isn't KDE4. It's the sense that KDE3 is living on borrowed time. If KDE 3 wasn't on the chopping block, I'd love KDE 4, and I'd certainly use it from time to time. I love the idea of having a lot of attractive information (time, weather, newsticker) on the desktop for those times when you just want to play internet radio, or whenever I'm not directly working with the computer.<BR/><BR/>For working, I'm not crazy about Plasma. It feels like a wall between me and the system, and for working, those widgets seem like glorified applets, only applets don't require all that locking and unlocking, moving around and resizing.<BR/><BR/>But I could easily live with Plasma, since I usually run KDE applications from fluxbox. When I use The K Desktop environment proper, I'm often generating text files, and it's helpful to be able to copy files directly to the Desktop... but for that limited use, Gnome will work just fine... and, like I said, I intend to use KDE4 and enjoy it from time to time. What has compelled me to make such a shrill, shrieking public spectacle of myself in every Linux forum I can find is the fate of Konqueror.<BR/><BR/>The amazing thing about Konqueror is that it contains just about all the graphical capabilities of the entire K Desktop environment. There are GUI applications menus, a window for detecting and mounting hard drives-- and every directory in Konqueror can be made to behave exactly like the KDE Desktop, with Customized desktop launchers (in Konqueror they're called "Links to applications" and "links to locations"). <BR/><BR/>So I can create my own super-desktop by running KDE applications from a Window Manager, where the menu and keybindings are text files that I can literally write myself from scratch. Thanks to Konqueror, I can bring ALL the GUI power of a full-featured desktop to my light, fast super-customized iconless window manager. <BR/><BR/>Konqueror is at the center of almost everything I do (except, ironically, web browsing.) I just did a search, and the word "konqueror" in my current fluxbox menu 128 times, either as part of a command or as part of a menu header.<BR/><BR/>Also, because Konqueror is both a file manager and a webbrowser, there are opportunities to do all kinds of interesting and creative things with html. Essentially, you can do file management with html. It's very cool.<BR/><BR/>Ah, but in KDE 4.1, The mighty Konqueror has simply been ruined. There's no other word for it. No filter bar for instant locating of files and directories. No support for the "storage media" function. There's also some pretty severe bugs, but the bugs don't bother me, because I know they will be addressed. <BR/><BR/>However, in the context of all the current shaking up, and the rather paternalistic effort to push konqueror as a web browser and dolphin as a file manager, I just can't be certain where they're going with the star of my Desktop. At times, my thinking takes a conspiratorial turn. I mentioned that Konqueror no longer has a filter bar... but Dolphin does. Is someone giving Konqueror the Tonya Harding treatment, deliberately crippling it so dolphin can prevail? That's crazy, isn't it? I can't believe I even brought it up. <BR/><BR/>So where's the Konqueror filter bar, motherfuckers? <BR/><BR/>Dolphin is okay, but it's not Konqueror. It's not all the power of the DE in one interface. And that wouldn't be a problem, except that Konqueror isn't Konqueror anymore. That's more than a problem; it's an emergency, but I can't be sure that anyone at KDE cares.<BR/><BR/>No, Mr. Nichols, it's not yet "time to fork KDE". After all, we just got a new version of KDE 3 maybe two weeks ago. Only when 3 has been abandoned will it be time to push the "fork" button, and maybe never. The devs tell us that future releases will address all our concerns. I wouldn't be surprised, but it's too important to take for granted.<BR/>We should all relax, take extra care to respect each other, trust that it's going to work out. and maybe we should find out where the "fork" button is located.<BR/><BR/>I'll say it again, the KDE developers are bona fide culture heroes in my book. Future generations may look back at them, and their collegues, with the same sense of gratitude that we feel today toward those monks who copied manuscripts all day long. <BR/><BR/>The free software model will work this out for us. Forking KDE would be nearly impossible, unless it turns out that a forked KDE is <I>necessary</I>. Then it becomes inevitable. I don't intend to be a regular user of KDE, but I feel pretty certain that we have KDE4 because KDE4 is <I>necessary</I>.flbvgblackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10465451668106452536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-55413882950827391672008-09-06T07:47:00.000-05:002008-09-06T07:47:00.000-05:00For Christ's sake, KDE is already forked! We have...For Christ's sake, KDE is already forked! We have two KDEs, and they're both valuble and important. Why do we need to put ourselves through this aggravation? For us holdovers, the plan seems to be to continue to develop KDE4 until we can run it as an ersatz KDE3. Is this really the simplest way to proceed? It seems to me like more work for the developers, more complaints to listen to, and I feel like my desktop is under siege.<BR/><BR/>How feasible is it to keep the maintainance mode going indefinitely? People talk about converting KDE3 to qt4 and crazy stuff like that, but how long could we keep KDE3 going without any significant change and just security fixes? Would maintenance require less advanced skills than development? so that, with a little help, guys like me could do most of the work?blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10465451668106452536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-9019544849438277882008-09-04T20:11:00.000-05:002008-09-04T20:11:00.000-05:00@aaron j seigo: "i hope you made sure all the frus...@aaron j seigo: "i hope you made sure all the frustrating things are reported on bugs.kde.org."<BR/><BR/>Well, I tried 4.1.1 today, and it was less than a salutary experience. I had tried 4.0, and didn't like it; I've now tried 4.1.1 and didn't like it.<BR/><BR/>Problem is, I can't really report "I didn't like it" as a bug. 'Tain't.<BR/><BR/>Mind you, I think Plasma has a great deal of promise - but right now, I found I couldn't move icons around on it once it started. Knotify4 shot to 97% and stayed there as long as I was moving the mouse (okay, THAT'S a bug, but "knotify4" isn't on the listed programs on the bug reporter).<BR/><BR/>KDE4 messed with KDE 3.5.9 settings (seriously). Shouldn't have. Maybe that's a kubuntu thing. But you know, the "you can run them side by side" didn't work out. I uninstalled kde4 pretty quick.<BR/><BR/>Right now, I'm glad y'all are still bugfixing 3.5 (just upgraded to 3.5.10, to get rid of the mis-set 3.5.9 settings).<BR/><BR/>Because... 4.1.1 is still not ready for prime time. No doubt it will be - but I'm looking for behavior along the lines of 3.5. I want Konqueror to behave in much the same way it does now. I couldn't even FIND konqueror in 4.1.1. Lord alone knows why, but it wasn't anywhere.<BR/><BR/>My laptop is an old HP n5430; it works fine under 3.5.10 (now). When 4.1.1 sucks 97% of its cycles for internal programs, for minutes at a time - well, I can't use that.<BR/><BR/>So... sometime around 4.2 or maybe 4.4, I'm sure I'll upgrade. The features are fine - the speed and behavior are not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-31239490400088089242008-07-05T12:38:00.000-05:002008-07-05T12:38:00.000-05:00About bug reports:I'm pretty sure that when I inst...About bug reports:<BR/><BR/>I'm pretty sure that when I installed that desktop, it was a beta, and there was something on the website that said "there are a lot of bugs, don't submit bug reports". Words to that effect.<BR/><BR/>But I didn't necessarily encounter any bugs. When you don't understand how the desktop works, that's not really a "bug".<BR/><BR/>It's not finished, that's all. It's no problem. I'm totally cool with it, because YOU explained to me that KDE 3.5 was still being maintained, and we weren't going to be pushed or rushed. I hadn't gotten that message before that. Now we need to ask ourselves what we can do to get that message out. If the bloggers and pundits don't understand what free software is, those are the conditions we have to work with.<BR/><BR/>Responsibility doesn't mean blame. It means "the ability to respond". See how that works?<BR/><BR/><B>i wonder if we'll see a follow up blog on as kde4 matures? here we have a panning of 4.0rc1 and then ... silence..</B><BR/><BR/>You say that like it's a bad thing. Didn't we agree that it's not finished? Do you really want a review for every unfinished development version? Until it's finished,silence is good.blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09241949768468966555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-8207900768045835092008-07-05T11:48:00.000-05:002008-07-05T11:48:00.000-05:00I just joined the KDE-promo mailing list, so I'm g...I just joined the KDE-promo mailing list, so I'm going to take the liberty of speaking in the second person.<BR/><BR/>We need to be responsible for our public relations, period. It seems to me that's what public relations is... <I>not</I> leaving it to others what the message is. If we had put the message out correctly about what the release was supposed to be, the public would have gotten the message, period. What can we do better? What can we do to make sure the public gets the message? These are the only questions worth answering, because that's the only way things will get better.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I take back all my criticism. After some research and some thought, I may say it all over again, but if I do it will be documented, it will be specific, and it will registered internally, and not publicly.blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09241949768468966555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-38079729677168337392008-07-04T14:39:00.000-05:002008-07-04T14:39:00.000-05:00@blackbelt_jones: "I installed KDE 4.1, and I foun...@blackbelt_jones: "I installed KDE 4.1, and I found it pretty frustrating"<BR/><BR/>i hope you made sure all the frustrating things are reported on bugs.kde.org.<BR/><BR/>i do wonder what you found pretty frustrating.<BR/><BR/>"releasing KDE4 way before it's ready,"<BR/><BR/>define "ready". it wasn't ready for production desktop usage in 4.0.0 and nobody pretended it was.<BR/><BR/>that was not the *point* of that release.<BR/><BR/>"and then telling users to be patient, was an epic PR blunder."<BR/><BR/>it turned out badly PR wise, yes. and you know why? because most of the journalists and bloggers who cover free software right now have very, very little idea of how free software actually works.<BR/><BR/>they are busy trying to fit our processes into the processes they are familiar with: the processes of companies whose products we're eclipsing in half the time it took them to and with a fraction of the budget.<BR/><BR/>"KDE needs to be responsible for that"<BR/><BR/>we need to be responsible for making the right technical decisions and then communicating what it was. we actually did both of those things.<BR/><BR/>people chose to neither listen nor comprehend, and then turned around and spread all sorts of very lame opinions, where "lame" is defined as "talking about that which you know not".<BR/><BR/>you might also want to keep in mind that "take responsibility for" implies changing how things are done in the future. while there is certainly always room for improvement, radically shifting from what we did would have resulted in a far, far less useful stack of software in both the near-term (e.g. this year, evidenced by current progress) and in the long term (e.g. 10 years from now).<BR/><BR/>as you go around advocating your "taking responsibility" meme, you may want to take that into consideration.<BR/><BR/>you may also want to consider educating the people who *actually* dropped the ball, namely the people who led (and continue to lead) the most amazing storm of half-truths and misinformation i've ever seen come out of the free software community. only the antics of Microsoft and SCO have been more audaciously wrong headed in the last decade or so.<BR/><BR/>kde communicated clearly, the community beyond our immediate borders decided to play an antagonistic game of us-and-them.<BR/><BR/>responsibility, indeed.<BR/><BR/>i wonder if we'll see a follow up blog on as kde4 matures? here we have a panning of 4.0rc1 and then ... silence.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06688610708513558784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-79433622427412758092008-07-04T13:51:00.000-05:002008-07-04T13:51:00.000-05:00It's not finshed. I installed KDE 4.1, and I foun...It's not finshed. I installed KDE 4.1, and I found it pretty frustrating. If you want a finished, workable desktop, don't bother.<BR/><BR/>But don't condemn it by it's present form. It's not finished. I think it's probably going to be great, but I honestly don't know, and I can't possibly know at this time.<BR/><BR/>I've said this before, and poor Aaron must think I'm following him around, but releasing KDE4 way before it's ready, and then telling users to be patient, was an epic PR blunder. KDE needs to be responsible for that, but don't mistake bad PR for bad software. Just keep using KDE 3.5,(there's even a new release coming up!) and let KDE4 get made before you issue opinions on it, favorable or not. In the current atmosphere, saying something nice about KDE4 will probably just prod someone else into saying something nasty. <BR/><BR/>Whatever you do, don't install KDE 4 without previewing it first with a live CD.blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10465451668106452536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-22944025383209930872008-07-04T12:27:00.000-05:002008-07-04T12:27:00.000-05:00@Praveen: "Please bring back the freedom that we w...@Praveen: "Please bring back the freedom that we were enjoying."<BR/><BR/>Ignoring for a moment that there are already many more features in KDE4's applications than in KDE3 (so I'm guessing you're talking about a rather small number of things in the workspace apps), you may want to try out KDE 4.1.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06688610708513558784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-16159944827275978762008-07-04T12:10:00.000-05:002008-07-04T12:10:00.000-05:00I am disappointed by KDE4. lots of features of KDE...I am disappointed by KDE4. lots of features of KDE 3 are absent. No freedom to control or change many settings. It's looks are good, But we need more than just look. More windows users are using the linux nowadays, I assume that caused the release of lame KDE4. <BR/>I liked the freedom and options that were available in KDE3. Now I feel like someone tied my hands in KDE4, I am no longer able to change or control many things.<BR/>Now using the simple looking Gnome, because no choice. I agree KDE4 looks good, But restricted. <BR/>Please bring back the freedom that we were enjoying.Praveen VKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10991346963999979684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-78172175980030905312008-02-10T10:24:00.000-06:002008-02-10T10:24:00.000-06:00Yeah, this is a premature release, and I got way t...Yeah, this is a premature release, and I got way too paranoid. <BR/><BR/>I installed the unstable Debian, which is still running KDE 3.5.8, and I upgrade daily. When the Sid maintainers, who know much more than I do, decide it's time to to go to KDE 4, that's when it'll be ready for me to take a look at.<BR/><BR/>Until I see the whole thing laid out the way it's supposed to be, I'm not going to be able to form a decent opinion, but my God, if they mess with Konqueror...!<BR/><BR/>When I ran Kubuntu, I discovered that if I clicked on a link in Konqueror, it would open in Dolphin. Hope they fixed that!<BR/><BR/>I don't understand how anyone could find Konqueror "confusing". You click on the icon, what's the big deal?blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09241949768468966555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-25812186802509876432008-02-10T08:32:00.000-06:002008-02-10T08:32:00.000-06:00Konqi's not being killed, the web browser part is ...Konqi's not being killed, the web browser part is working better than ever. It was very buggy in rc1 & rc2 but seems better than ever now in 4.0.1 off the OpenSuSE build service (read the OS weekly news and update the repositary to get latest KDE 3.5.8 & KDE4 stable 4.0.1 or latest which ever is your preference.<BR/><BR/>According to reply to a bug report, the file manager kpart is in Konqi and the same "views" are usable. At time the KDE4 I had was crashing lots, so it wasn't checkable by me.<BR/><BR/>To me the release was just a couple of months premature, 4.0.1 seems perfectly acceptable as a X.0.0; with not all 3.5.8 features available.<BR/><BR/>I share your confusion when running KDE4, for some reason as a past KDE 1,2 & 3 user, suddenly I'm finding things non-intuitive and I get lost and frustrated. Due to low quality of the rc's it was not possible to see if that was due to bugs, or feature changes.<BR/><BR/>With all the developer emphasis on components with kool names like phonon, oxygen, plasma; I'm kind of wondering if they've not seen the wood for the trees. Some things are improved, but KDE was always a complete desktop environment, lots of features but very usable, and little need to read up documentation. Though a little study did pay off, as intro to neat features.<BR/><BR/>I really hope, we're not going to be stuck with the default Dolphin, there's something very annoying about it. Konqi may have confused many, and I would have liked to be able to have seperate settings for web/file mode on opening a window, but it was one of main reasons I liked KDE 1,2 & 3. If KDE4 is going to insist on a dumbed down filemanager, it'll be a bitter pill. Aaron Siego has said that's not happening, but there seems to be a disconnect between user KDE 4 reviewers, and the developers, with developers not able apparently to point to bug reporting users, how to get the expected behaviour when they're setting bugs to INVALID.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12598911953821878699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-40671649057254385032008-02-05T16:30:00.000-06:002008-02-05T16:30:00.000-06:00Of course, sabatoge is a moot point. Based entire...Of course, sabatoge is a moot point. Based entirely on what I was running earlier today in SUSE 10.3, Konqueror is being killed. Whether it's murder or negligent homicide is just academic.blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10465451668106452536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-38183686330836106082008-02-05T16:25:00.000-06:002008-02-05T16:25:00.000-06:00Okay, you know what? To hell with this. I can't pr...Okay, you know what? To hell with this. I can't prove anything, but I have a strong suspicion that no matter what anyone tells you, as a file manager, Konqueror has been marked for death. I've been searching up and down the toolbar-- and the button to "show hidden files" seems to be missing. Okay, maybe it's SUSE that is causing the trouble, but a file manager that can go <I>almost</I> anywhere might as well not exist. This has all the ear marks of sabatoge. This sounds like paranoia when talking about KDE, but if I accused Microsoft of doing something like this, it would seem perfectly reasonable.<BR/><BR/>In order to view hidden files, I have to open Dolphin. And since Dolphin looks so much like Konqueror, I usually have no idea which I'm using at any given moment. I know a train wreck when I see one, and this is a goddamn train wreck. I'll try the next KDE 4when it comes out, but I'm fully prepared to hunker down with my stable debian and pray for a good long time before the next release.<BR/><BR/>When I'm this pissed off, it's usually a prelude to me finding out that I'm completely wrong. If that's what happens this time, I won't be afraid to admit it.blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10465451668106452536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-9840612496762181012008-02-05T07:49:00.000-06:002008-02-05T07:49:00.000-06:00Well, I think it's official. It's officially been...Well, I think it's official. It's officially been released,and last night I installed it on opensuse. Either I can't understand the interface, or KDE4 sucks. Or both.<BR/><BR/>What I can't get past is the vastly curtailed keyboard shortcuts. Or perhaps I am mistaken? I click and I click, and I just can't find any additional keyboard options. I just don't see how it's possible that someone made a conscious decision that I wasn't going to want to directly open a terminal window with a keybinding. <BR/><BR/>This is pretty fundamental stuff. If it's going to make me use the mouse more, or type more, I just don't care about anything else. I still don't know what plasma is... and I'm not the least bit curious.blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10465451668106452536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-86777318393791859552007-12-03T21:19:00.000-06:002007-12-03T21:19:00.000-06:00> What I fear is "Gnomisation".not happening.> if ...> What I fear is "Gnomisation".<BR/><BR/>not happening.<BR/><BR/>> if Dolphin breaks the Konqi<BR/>> Browser/FileManager concept<BR/><BR/>not happening either.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06688610708513558784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-2385944481053127212007-12-03T19:22:00.000-06:002007-12-03T19:22:00.000-06:00With some experience as a Software Engineer in big...With some experience as a Software Engineer in big projects nearing Release deadlines, I have tried to test KDE4, as a user.<BR/><BR/>What I find, is many of the KDE4 Applictions included by Open SuSE 10.3, work fine under KDE3.<BR/><BR/>OTHO, the KDE4-rc1 release is IMO Alpha Quality. Basic things like Konqueror are very broken. Realistically a Beta should have the Plasma stuff ready in featyre complete (for KDE 4.0) form.<BR/><BR/>But bugs are getting fixed, and there's been a lot of discussion. My main concern is in the change of character of KDE4. KDE has suited Win Refugees, but also Power Users, who appreciate it's take on the UI, and things like kio_slaves in Konqi.<BR/><BR/>What I fear is "Gnomisation". GNOME drives me barmy, if Dolphin breaks the Konqi Browser/FileManager concept, which I love, then I'll probably try XFCE and go lightweight. Always been a text in terminal type, KDE I've used since Version 1.0.x, and has been my fave heavyweight DT by far.<BR/><BR/>There's probably a conflict, lots of KDE4 ppl are "done" and eager to move to the improved toolkit and ship.<BR/><BR/>Those who aren't done, and have integration issues, most likely tend to underestimate the time to ship.<BR/><BR/>Still given time, it'll probably come together very well, and then we'll see about UI changes.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12598911953821878699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-48057124080486940022007-12-02T11:56:00.000-06:002007-12-02T11:56:00.000-06:00kde4 release has been delayed by a month to fix so...kde4 release has been delayed by a month to fix some of the unpolished issues (aka usability experience) and is very much welcome, as you will see by the majority of user comments.<BR/><BR/>http://dot.kde.org/1196525703/<BR/><BR/>kde4 rc-1 seems very much outdated (5,000 bugs or so behind according to 1 comment) and yet at the time, it is still the latest release. I hope they do an rc-2 soon, so that fixed issues wont keep getting re-reported.geekaholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16681603430019235684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-9522273653923790072007-11-28T22:42:00.000-06:002007-11-28T22:42:00.000-06:00Aaron, thank you for helping me to relax. As long ...Aaron, thank you for helping me to relax. As long as Konqueror is permitted to remain its big bad self, I can completely get behind Dolphin, a great-looking, user-friendly file manager that new users will love, and that's important. <BR/><BR/>And of course, Dolphin should be the default, since Konqueror power users will be be able to make the adjustment. (Even I expect to figure it out eventually!)<BR/><BR/>Kongratulations on all your fine work!<BR/><BR/>blackbelt_jonesblackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09241949768468966555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-59519169484946334332007-11-28T19:17:00.000-06:002007-11-28T19:17:00.000-06:00@blackbelt_jones: 'hope you can accept a little me...@blackbelt_jones: 'hope you can accept a little messy redundancy, and not try to push everybody into a neat, preprogrammed desktop "experience"'<BR/><BR/>rejoice, blackbelt jones! for we are not doing that at all.<BR/><BR/>both konqueror and dolphin are in kdebase in all their glory.<BR/><BR/>they have different use cases, different user bases ... consensus is we need and want them both.<BR/><BR/>that has always been our stand, and i don't see that changing. konq is too good =)<BR/><BR/>in fact, part of the reason for introducing dolphin is so that people who need a dolphin like thing don't try and screw up konqi ;)<BR/><BR/>as for adjusting it's UI to be more web browsery, i expect we'll eventually see a dolphinesque web-browser-only around webkit sometime in 4.1 or 4.2, relieving any of that UI pressure from konqi.<BR/><BR/>so konq will continue on as it always has with these other special purpose apps servicing a different group of people.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06688610708513558784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-69817896471291078172007-11-28T16:26:00.000-06:002007-11-28T16:26:00.000-06:00I know it is subtle, but the phrase "the majority ...I know it is subtle, but the phrase "the majority of applications included in KDE 4.0 are now usable" means something quite different than "Plasma is now usable."<BR/><BR/>Try testing the *applications*, and ignoring Plasma and the control center. <BR/><BR/>Also, if it helps people understand things: The big, nasty, in your face problems are usually the easiest to fix. The hard, time consuming part of development is in the subtleties and details.Henry S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18035280641394080528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-39256930182921462092007-11-28T15:26:00.000-06:002007-11-28T15:26:00.000-06:00As far as I'm concerened, do what you like, just d...As far as I'm concerened, do what you like, just don't mess with Konqueror. Dolphin is nice, I can see why you'd want something that, but I hope you can accept a little messy redundancy, and not try to push everybody into a neat, preprogrammed desktop "experience" It's reading about how "the two applications won't compete; they'll complement each other", that gave me physical symptoms. For God's sake, let them compete.<BR/><BR/>http://dot.kde.org/1172721427/<BR/><BR/>This is the only "official" thing that has been published on the subject. <BR/><BR/>quote:<BR/><BR/><B>Konqueror is not going to disappear for KDE 4, although its user interface may yet see some adjustments as its primary utility will not as the default file manager.</B><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Can you imagine how ominous this seems to a fanatical Konqueror user? Sure, I'm overreacting, but I'm not getting a clear idea what's appropriate. Am I supposed to read this and NOT freak out?blackbelt_joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09241949768468966555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-22259674026706673622007-11-28T10:18:00.000-06:002007-11-28T10:18:00.000-06:00"Ugly as hell, and "Aaron likes it" is NOT a good ..."Ugly as hell, and "Aaron likes it" is NOT a good reason for a COMMUNITY project to keep something so many people seem to dislike. I"<BR/><BR/>oh, btw, i *don't* like that clock. in fact ... i made the people who were doing it change it.<BR/><BR/>and probably more than any other developer out there in the free software desktop world right now, i spend a huge amount of time listening to, processing and responding to the community.<BR/><BR/>you have no idea how much time i spend not dealing with my own issues and desires, but working on those of others.<BR/><BR/>so, you really missed the mark on that one. on the upside, you were successfull at showing what a complete asshat you can be. *applause*Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06688610708513558784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-85205534765708575662007-11-28T10:14:00.000-06:002007-11-28T10:14:00.000-06:00"but that doesn't justify the state of rc-1. I loo..."but that doesn't justify the state of rc-1. I look forward to trying out rc-2"<BR/><BR/>ok, let's talk about this whole "what it was called" thing. we had very good reasons for calling it rc1. here are most of them:<BR/><BR/>- we need to make a release; we've been working on this code base for a long time now and it needs to get "out there"; that's the "early, often" thing<BR/><BR/>- it's really hard to get developers in release critical mode after 2 years of free form development, sometimes it takes a shot in the mouth<BR/><BR/>- it's really hard to get people testing releases before they are released; this is hardly an issue for our usual minor releases that we traditionally do every 9 months or so: there's relatively little to test, many of the goalposts are fixed rather well. not so with a major release like this one.<BR/><BR/>so instead of doing Yet Another Beta which would not have caused the movement needed at this time, we took a deep breath and called it an rc. we all knew that taking this difficult step was going to be painful. we knew people such as yourself would write things such as you did.<BR/><BR/>still, we accomplished what we had to. that may be difficult for many (most?) people to grasp (it requires a certain knowledge of the project's status as well as some big picture thought)<BR/><BR/>when you make as brazen a set of statements as in your blog entry here, i will certainly be around to offer some reality correction.<BR/><BR/>that's the beauty of open discourse.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06688610708513558784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-41836711680987142742007-11-28T06:01:00.000-06:002007-11-28T06:01:00.000-06:00I will reply in reverse:>it's easier to stand on t...I will reply in reverse:<BR/><BR/>>it's easier to stand on the side lines and throw rocks, >right? <BR/><BR/>Aaron, sorry that your taking this a bit personal but the intention was not to throw rocks but convey that I don't think kde rc-1 is of rc quality. I've tested the previous betas and alphas but didn't speak out because they were alphas and betas and I could see good progress was being made. <BR/><BR/>>i see one bug report from you on bugs.kde.org (against >kde3 amarok), don't see any posts to panel-devel, etc ..<BR/><BR/>Guilty as changed on not putting out more bug reports but I don't think I need go on panel-devel and be an ass* saying kde4-rc1 is broken. <BR/><BR/>I am seeing the tremendous momentum on that list and see a lot of things are happening.<BR/><BR/>I'm not a kde developer but am an interested user. I've even came to one of the irc meetings (I think the first) where you were missing for a couple of hours.<BR/><BR/>>but as others have noted it's "release early, release >often" and until we start threatening with "rc" status >too few people out there bother testing things or start >working on porting their apps. <BR/><BR/>I don't agree this is a good approach but if it works for you then I guess its ok.<BR/><BR/>>it's also pretty sad that you focus on one app and some >of the icons that are missing and gloss over absolutely >everything else.<BR/><BR/>By one app, I think you mean plasma? Yes so everyone seems to keep reminding me. Whether its one app or many doesn't matter because plasma seemed to have crippled the user experience. Whats a desktop environment without the user experience. I'm sure there is a reason for not called fluxbox or icewm as desktop environments. I'm sorry it makes you sad. It made me sad too after seeing what I saw.<BR/><BR/>>it's sad your rant of a blog entry made it onto sites >such linuxtoday, as it's so woefully out of date with the >state of 4.0 that it's interesting as a historical note >and little else.<BR/><BR/>I only submitted it to lxer. Yes its sad it got picked up by more news sites. But I'm happy to hear that the points I raised are now history. I look forward to rc-2<BR/><BR/>>let's see ...<BR/>>the systray, resizing applets,<BR/><BR/>Ok this is good news. I'm sorry for not running the svn version of kde, but that doesn't justify the state of rc-1. I look forward to trying out rc-2geekaholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16681603430019235684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8947964.post-24348470389723624352007-11-28T05:11:00.000-06:002007-11-28T05:11:00.000-06:00>> as it's so woefully out of date with the state ...>> as it's so woefully out of date with the state of 4.0<BR/><BR/>True or not, there's an obvious lesson if you care to learn it.<BR/><BR/>A Release Candidate should be just that - a candidate for final release. This was apparently nowhere near being that as there were obvious pieces of functionality that hadn't even been written.<BR/><BR/>If you abuse the RC term you're going to get much harsher feedback than if you label it as an Alpha or Beta. I suggest Public Beta as a more appropriate term.Chris Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17485234948759497867noreply@blogger.com